How Customers Get Fired

Contrary to popular opinion, the customer is not always right. And there are times when the customer isn’t just wrong but outright ugly in the way they conduct their business with a company. This, unfortunately, is one of those cases.

Before we walk you through what happened it’s probably a good idea to explain how we do business.

Apex has a very good reputation for how we conduct our customer service. When it comes to installing some of our trigger kits, we realize that there is a certain level of complication to the process, and this can lead to frustration and, yes, even anger.

We know this and we are well prepared for it. Our customer service staff is very well trained, and very patient when it comes to helping customers diagnose issues they are experiencing. For the most part, issues customers run into with our kits are most often the result of an error during installation.

This is not uncommon, and even experts like Randy and Scott will tell you they have made their fair share of mistakes when reassembling a firearm. It happens to all of us. The trick is to realize when to ask for help – and who to ask for help.

There are, of course, instances when the issue is the part itself. Apex spends a great deal of time and money towards quality control, and while we have an extraordinarily low return rate, a customer getting a bad part can happen. When it does we don’t hide from that fact. We own it. We replace it. And we make sure the customer is satisfied.

Those of you reading this that are longtime Apex customers, or have had to work with our customer service staff, know this. You know firsthand how we earned our reputation, which is why many of you have become repeat customers, and in some cases good friends.

However, there are times when no amount of stellar customer service will appease an angry customer. And even worse, there are times when a customer gets belligerent. When that happens, Scott or Randy steps in.

One of the great things about working at Apex is that the owners, Scott Folk and Randy Lee, place tremendous value on the employees. In the case of the customer service staff, this means they won’t tolerate any abuse from a customer.

They have taken the position that when a customer does get out of line and refuses to use appropriate language, Apex will ‘fire’ that customer. Yes, we are in the business of selling gun parts, but we’ll gladly walk away from any sale if in order to make a sale, or keep a customer, it means we have to tolerate abusive behavior.

We’re not the only company that takes this position.

So, what does it take to get fired as an Apex customer? Below is an exchange of emails we had with a customer who had a problem with their Glock trigger kit. The problem wasn’t one of the quality of the part, but of overlooking proper lubrication.

If you choose to read through the exchange (the customer’s emails are in blue) you will see exactly why Scott made the decision to terminate our relationship with this customer.

We are not posting this to humiliate the customer, as we have left out the customer’s name. We share this with you so you get some sense of what customer service staff at this, and other companies, go through when a customer gets belligerent.

We apologize in advance for the language used (though it certainly wasn’t ours).


WARNING: The following exchange contains some rather strong language. We have not edited or censored this exchange so that you can better understand why we as a company decided to ‘fire’ a customer. You may want to consider that before reading further.

[Feb. 3, 2020 – 5:23 PM] Unpublished Comment from Customer on Apex’s Blog

This trigger after installation started out great, just as advertised. then after maybe 1000 pulls, it started changing feel, getting mushy and finally I realized that the . trigger break is all the way to the back of the frame and won’t even break sometimes!

This hunk of junk cost me over $100 at an online Apex dealer. after looking online and comparing prices and descriptions of aftermarket triggers after it had become clear that the 4.5 lb. pull on my 17 was stopping me from getting tight groupings in my target practice. I wish I had run across the information about the Glock minus connector before I paid $100 for this utter garbage. But I didn’t until after the apex went to crap and THEN I found information in multiple places about the Glock minus connector and how all the aftermarket brands are inferior to it.

[Feb. 4, 2020 – 6:22 AM] Email from Scott to Customer

Good Morning XXXX,

I received an email containing a blog post from you regarding your displeasure with our Glock trigger kit.

If you’re unhappy with your kit as your message suggests, I can recommend a few options.

1) Have you tried lubricating the connection between the trigger bar and connector?  We’ve found that most people don’t lubricate this critical spot and galling occurs which makes the triggers feel pretty gritty.  With some lubrication, they typically go back to feeling as expected.  The Glock owner’s Manual recommends lubricating this area as well.

a) If that doesn’t fix the trigger pull, I can send you a new connector to try in your gun.  Paired with good quality lubricant, that should fix the issue.

2) If you no longer want the kit, contact the dealer you purchased it through and request options from them.

As a side note, your post suggests you feel like our kit is only intended to bring the trigger pull weight down, which is not the case.  If any customer wants to just reduce the trigger pull weight, a Minus connector is the way to go.  If you want to make it so the factory trigger safety doesn’t dig into your trigger finger on recoil, then our trigger is what you’re looking for.

Let me know how you would like to proceed and I’ll do what I can to help you out.

Have a great day.
Scott Folk
Chief Operations Officer
Apex Tactical Specialties, Inc.

[Feb. 4, 2020 – 7:31 AM] Email from Customer to Scott

Thank you for your reply. It is not a lubrication issue and never was because i liberally lubricate Everything and grittiness is not the problem. The problem is that this trigger wore out in two months after a max of 1500 activations.it got mushier and mushier at the break snd the takeup longer and longer until they point that last night, before i replaced it with an Oem Glock trigger and Minus connector, the break was all the way against the frame and therefore sometimes would not fire. Contrast that with the performancee and feel of the original 4.5 OEM trigger, which kept the exact same feel, the exact same takeup distance and the issue is clear to any honest person: the Apex triggers are vastly inferior ,overhyped,lied about as i invertantly did leaving reviews so when i first installed it and was pleased with it because i never imagined it would wear out IN 2 months! Nevertheless all is fine with my primary carry weapon now that removed the apex junk and reinstalled quality OEM parts, which freels and performs better in every way than the Apex trigger ever did, at half the cost.so my only problem now my only question is how i get my Wasted 100$ back for this junk? Because i dont rememeber where i bought it and didnt keep the receipt because i never dreamed a company would have the gall or the ability to successfully hawk such junk for such a price.

[Feb. 4, 2020 – 7:40 AM] Email from Customer to Scott

By the way, i immediately filed off the bullshit corners on the apex flat faced trigger that dug into my fingers and feel uncomfortable. I dont know what moron came up with this flat face square corner idiocy for triggers but it sucks and is the second time ive file them down . I did the same with the trigger on my ruger lcp custom.Even Glock is a bit moronic with the thin safety blade that is straight in the middle of the curved trigger. I filed that shit down smooth with the trigger face before installation last night.

[Feb. 4, 2020 – 7:53 AM] Email from Scott to Customer

Hi XXX,

Are you available for a phone call around 2PM(MST) today?

[Feb. 4, 2020 – 2:11 PM] Email from Apex Customer Service to Customer

Hi XXXX,

Thanks again for giving us a call. Please print and include the attached RMA with the 102-115 Action Enhancement Kit for the Gen 3/4 Glock. Once our Shipping Department receives and processes the return, we will send out the replacement kit. We will do our best to get it processed quickly, but it can take up to 3-5 business days to process depending on our workload. You will receive tracking information as soon as the new kit is ready to ship.

Someone from our Shipping Department will send you a return shipping label in a separate email this afternoon. Please let me know if you have questions or need any further assistance. Have a great day!

[Feb. 5, 2020 – 3:09 PM] Email from Customer to Scott

Fyi i bought the trigger at apex tactical and called and the cs rep was very nice as everyone has been buy he could locate my order which i think was made in early oct. Maybe he didnt look back far enough? The reason i bring this up is bcuz i have an rma and was promised a replacement which i agreed to because while i have all ready replaced it with suitable OEM parts, i have a part i paid over 100$ that failed and is therefore worthless. So my thinking was then that at least i could sell a new one on ebay and recoup some loss. But now i am requesting a refund in the amount of my original payment after i return it,if possible.
Thank you.

[Feb. 5, 2020 – 3:36 PM] Email from Scott to Customer

Good Afternoon XXXX,

I understand that you’ve spoken to XXXX and XXXX in the past couple of days about this issue and I am aware that XXXX has issued an RMA to replace the kit you have not with a new one.

I’ll ask my staff to take another look in our system for you. If we can find the transaction in which you purchased the kit from us, I’d be happy to offer you a full refund.  Could you have purchased it under another name, email or mailing address?

A purchase from our web page creates 3 emails, an order confirmation, account creation confirmation and a shipping notification, if you can find any of those to support your sale, that would be a huge help in finding your transaction.  Maybe check your spam folder or other email addresses you may have.

Would you please send me your phone number and mailing address? I’d like to see if we our IT Manager can track you down in the web store separately from what CS has access to.  Any other information you can provide me on the transaction when you purchased the kit would be helpful.  PLEASE DO NOT SEND ME YOUR CREDIT CARD NUMBER, we do not have that on file and it would be a security risk for you to send it.

I understand your hesitance in working with aftermarket triggers at this point, especially after your first experience seemed to go so well at first then all of a sudden it wasn’t so good.  Let me reassure you that this is not common by any stretch of the imagination.  We have tens of thousands of our Glock kits in circulation, in use at every level from competitive shooters to SWAT teams and we’ve rarely had an issue with them.  My primary goal is to make sure that everything works and lasts beyond the service life of the gun it’s installed into.  The issue you’re experiencing is one which I’m personally looking into as I would like to know what caused it so we can prevent it from happening.

Thanks and have a great day.
Scott Folk
Chief Operations Officer
Apex Tactical Specialties, Inc.

[Feb. 5, 2020 – 4:05 PM] Email from Customer to Scott

I alll ready gave the info to XXXX i think but it is [address, phone number and email address removed]. based upon your response, can i expected that apex will analyze the failed parts when you receive it to find out why and howbit wore out and failed in such a short time?

[Feb. 5, 2020 – 4:24 PM] Email from Scott to Customer

Hi XXXX,

Thank you for sending that over.  I’ll dig into this and get back to you if we can find you in our systems anywhere.

You are correct, my plan is to analyze the parts, run through our inspection first article process to determine if they’re in spec, then install them as is into on of our test guns and see if we can recreate the problem you described.

Scott Folk
Chief Operations Officer
Apex Tactical Specialties, Inc.

[Feb. 7, 2020 – 9:58 AM] Email from Scott to Customer

Hi XXXX,

Thank you for your patience in all of this.  I’ve worked with IT and Finance in the attempt to find your purchase with us and we’re unable to find any record of you purchasing anything from us.   We looked through the Webstore Database and credit card processing system for your name, email, phone and mailing address, but nothing has come up.

If you can find a paper copy of the paperwork that come with the parts, one of our system generated emails about that transaction or in the most extreme case, a (partially redacted) credit card statement that shows you had a purchase from us, I can offer you a refund.  Without anything to verify you bought from us, all I can do is offer you a credit of equal value to what you’re returning to us or a replacement so you can do as you wish with it.

I understand that XXXX has sent you an RMA to return the parts to us for replacement, have you sent them out yet?  I’m only asking because I want to keep an eye out for their arrival.

Have a great weekend.
Scott
Scott Folk
Chief Operations Officer
Apex Tactical Specialties, Inc.

[Feb. 22, 2020 – 11:21 AM] Email from Customer to Apex Customer Service

“I got the package and have to ask why you people like wasting money sending half of the replacement at a time ? I got the trigger and bar assembly but no connector even though I bought used and sent to you a trigger with bar AND connector. Your connector that I sent back , and did not get a replacement for is what failed. So now please spend more money at USPS and send me the replacement connector Thank you.”

[Feb. 24, 2020 – 10:25 AM] Email from Apex Customer Service to Customer

Hi XXXX,

I had left you a voicemail on 2/18/20 to let you know that I was only sending you a replacement trigger and trigger bar because that was all you had returned to us. If you still have the safety plunger and connector that were included with the kit you originally purchased, please return them to us and I will be happy to replace those parts for you. Since this is a direct exchange, I can only send you replacements for what you have returned.

[Feb. 26, 2020 – 8:39 AM] Email from Customer to Apex Customer Service

“That is fucking bullshit I sent a connector and the trigger bar . I kept the plunger. Now send me the fucking connector dipshit.”

[Feb. 26, 2020 – 8:48 AM] Email from Customer Service to Scott

Hey Scott,

Do you mind reaching out to Mr. XXXX?

[Feb. 26, 2020 – 1:06 PM] Email from Scott to Customer

Mr. XXXX,

Your language toward my staff is unacceptable and will not be tolerated. You’ve been hostile toward my staff from the start, yet we’ve been courteous to you. There is absolutely no reason for you to treat my staff this way.

Effective immediately, my staff are being instructed to send any future communications from you, to me personally. They will not answer any questions for you nor will they attempt to assist you in any way.

I finalized my results of the inspection I was doing on the trigger and bar you sent to us. As I suspected, the issue was lubrication. I installed your trigger bar into one of my demo guns, and removed all lubrication from the face of the connector, it resulted in an 8.5lb trigger pull, similar enough to your stated results that I accept your findings as you stated them to us. I removed the rear connector housing from the pistol, added appropriate grease between the trigger bar and connector, and reassembled the pistol. The trigger pull smoothed out and dropped down to 4.75lbs as expected. Though the trigger you sent us appears to have been heavily modified and painted in gold nail polish which appears to have been subsequently scraped off and the trigger body pivot hole was damaged from what appears to be the use of a hammer during the install (something that is not advised for install of a trigger into any Glock frame) the trigger body was not an issue in the end, it was a lack of lubrication.

In the matter of the Trigger Connector you say we owe you, though all of our shipping incoming inspection paperwork shows none was received, I’ll send one out today, at that point Apex is done doing business with you.

Sincerely,
Scott Folk
Chief Operations Officer
Apex Tactical Specialties, Inc.

[Feb. 26, 2020 – 2:28 PM] Email from Customer to Scott

Bullshit asshole and fuck off. You’re3 a fucking liar,I just now got hostile because you motherfuckers didn’t send me what you were supposed to send me and lied about what I sent. This is hostile assbag. I was not hostile iuntil =now and you ar4e fucking l9y9ing and making shit up and I don’t give a fuck because you soffry fucking cocksuckers all ready sent me the part you didn’t send now so I could give a fucking rat’s ass about what you cocksuckers will tolerate you dildonic butfucker. AND I AM LEAVING BAD FEEDBACK ABOUT this bogus part EVVERY WHERE I CAN bvecause it was a piece of sucking shit and could have gotten me killed if it failed in a defensive situation.

[Feb. 26, 2020 – 2:39 PM] Email from Customer to Scott

“Oh, and what they fuck are you going to do about it even if you weren’t lying through your fucking teeth you impotent idiot?”

[Feb. 29, 2020 – 4:12 PM] Email from Customer to Scott

Before I delete your blowhard shit, let me add that   I find the OEM Glock trigger parts getting smoother  AND CRISPER as I use them, unlike your overpriced cheap pieces of shit parts that got mushy, less crisp and ultimately started breaking At THE EXTREME REAR AGAINST THE FRAME.

In my book, Charging me $100 of my hard earned money for such garbage is far more obscene that a couple fucks used as adjectives after you ripoff assbags claimed that I didn’t send the connector back so you weren’t sending a replacement As is the apparent cunts who lied their twats off claiming I’d been nasty from the beginning on the phone unless it was you who made that shit up on your own. I found them extremely nice and helpful on the phone and behave likewise, for your information. And any claim to the contrary is a bald face lie and  no less obscene. But don’t worry all this is in my blog and tagged with key words to counter all the fucking untrue undoubtedly bought good reviews about how good APEX  garbage is. Owe it’s good all right, for not more than 1000 rounds. But guess what, IT”S NOT NEARLY AS GOOD EVEN WHEN IT IS STILL WORKING AS is the OEM trigger and minus connector.

My momma was boned, just not 9 months ago, you dissengenuous asshole.

[Feb. 29, 2020 – 4:16 PM] Email from Customer to Scott
(Note: this email appears to be in response to Scott’s Feb. 4 email in which Scott was responding to customer’s comment he submitted to our blog on Feb. 3)

I just saw this and don’t recall writing anything about  the shitty apex parts that failed in my blog at this point., let alone forwar5ding it to you, which I did not do, so I assume you are fantasizing again just like you do thinking the company you work for or own or whatever, actually makes reliable parts and didn’t buy all the  phonygood reviews I saw online. I mean I actually left one myself after intiital installation, not realizinfg that I had just installed 1000 pull max lifetime parts on my glock.

As we noted, the above exchange is exactly as we received it, and unedited. The photo below is of the (originally all black) trigger we received from the customer…exactly as it was received.

Ultimately, this all came down to a simple problem of a lack of lubrication, which is essential for the interface between the connector and trigger bar on the Glock pistol. Without it – and the Glock owner’s manual directs you to use lube – the trigger pull weight will begin to escalate, and as Scott explained in his reply, it nearly doubled.

We hope this episode gives you a bit of insight as to how we handle customer service support issues. In the vast majority of cases things work out just fine and customers are glad they called Apex for assistance. But every once in a while things turn out a bit differently. Thankfully those are few and far between.

Comments

  1. David Gomez - March 4, 2020 @ 8:36 pm

    A have used Apex parts and all have worked great.

  2. Jeff Halmagyi - March 4, 2020 @ 9:04 pm

    Some people don’t have a clue how to communicate (period). I have installed at least 9 Apex trigger Assemblies – 4 of which are mine and 3 for my son-in-law/daughter, and 2 for customers, and I have had no trouble with any of the installs or useage. I am a retired Director of Manufacturing and a degree’d Gunsmith. I believe Scott and Randy do an excellent job of design, manufacturing, and providing excellent customer support…keep up the great work. Forget the jerk and his comments. His anger has blinded him to reality.

  3. G.K. - March 4, 2020 @ 10:02 pm

    I have your triggers in several of my guns and have not had a single issue with installation or performance in any way …. BUT ….. Then again , I don’t grind parts down and coat it all with fingernail polish either 😉.

  4. Tony S - March 4, 2020 @ 10:04 pm

    Ok, now I’m worried. I purchased an Apex trigger for my SD9VE, but haven’t had a chance to install it yet. If someone with such vast gunsmithing experience has trouble, how can a hack like me EVER get it to work…?
    Although at least now I know lubrication is critical on this replacement part, when that’s never been an issue before(on the OEM triggers)…

  5. Gordon L - March 4, 2020 @ 10:20 pm

    You really can’t fix stupid can you. You can find people like this all over the internet. They buy a product that works perfectly fine for the majority of users but through their ineptness they screw something up and it’s the manufacturer’s fault. This hamfisted jackwagon probably shouldn’t even be handling a firearm.

  6. Adam - March 4, 2020 @ 10:42 pm

    As a proud owner of several Apex products I couldn’t be more impressed with the professionalism of you all. I happily refer anyone who asks me to your parts. I have 1 out of 5 glocks and sigs without an apex trigger. All revolvers have your hammers. Purely based on your customer service I’m going to replace the 1 perfectly good “other manufacturers” trigger with your Great trigger. There is officially nothing Apex can do better now that we have all seen how you support your customers and staff. Feel free to send this halfwit my email address I’d love to explain the facts to him in a manner he would understand.

  7. Steve - March 4, 2020 @ 10:49 pm

    What a (not sure what to even say)!

    I can only say, I’m a happy camper with my apex trigger on my Shield, and is was the excellent customer service that helped me determine what I was actually looking for, rather some idea I had. Looking forward to getting an apex on my Glock 19.

    Keep up the great work

  8. Tim K - March 4, 2020 @ 11:04 pm

    My 2.0 trigger has performed flawlessly with thousands of rounds through it and I place my life in its functionality. Great job Apex. I look forward to using your trigger in my 43X.

  9. Rupert G. - March 5, 2020 @ 1:33 am

    Wow! That customer needs a psychiatric evaluation & treatment..I ‘be bought and used Apex triggers on my 2 g19 gen 3& 4, Apex triggers on my 2 S& W shield 1.0 & shield 2.0 and till now it runs flawlessly and never had problems with it. As long as you follow APEX installation videos step by step , you won’t have any issues with it..

  10. Billy - March 5, 2020 @ 6:01 am

    I’ve never installed a trigger in a handgun before. I was able to follow the instructions from a video Apex posted. It was not difficult. Let alone it was on an Fns9c which are known for their more complex trigger geometry and set up. If you lack mechanical ability and can’t follow instructions your parts will probably not be reliable. Apex is a solid company no matter how you cut it.

  11. Wayne Patrick - March 5, 2020 @ 8:25 am

    Apex is among the best in our industry for quality and customer service. This person was way out of line.

  12. William Carter - March 5, 2020 @ 11:52 am

    After over 2,000 rounds through a .40s&w shield I can say the trigger pull, take up, and over travel are the same as the day I installed it. Which was well over a year ago. I have done nothing special as far as lubrication beyond normal field strip and cleaning. It is apparent from the modifications he made to the trigger shoe that common sense was not used in this situation. I HIGHLY RECOMMEND Apex products as the difference in quality for price over others is much better.

  13. Bass-A - March 5, 2020 @ 8:20 pm

    I love my Apex trigger on my S&W Shield 9mm. No problems. I’m going to get one for my G 23. Thank you guys!!!

  14. Chad Voth - March 5, 2020 @ 8:48 pm

    I don’t know about their Glock parts, but I love my flat-faced P320 trigger.

    More relevant however, is this: I bought my Sig used, and it had the Apex trigger installed when I got it. It also had not had Sig’s voluntary recall performed on it. Once the recall was performed, the old Apex trigger wouldn’t work. After contacting Apex to confirm this, I (the second owner, who had paid them nothing) was given credit in the Apex store to buy a brand new compatible trigger. They even shipped it for free.

    That’s customer sevice.

  15. Greg Edwards - March 6, 2020 @ 1:56 am

    Exactly the type of individual who probably shouldn’t be allowed to cary.. anger of that magnitude is just flat wrong.. thanks for posting it, and thanks for your professionalism..

  16. adam - March 6, 2020 @ 4:16 am

    so, does apex offer gold nail polish as an add on or is that something i’ll have to do myself 🤣
    GlOkS dOnT nEeD lUbRiCaTiOn

  17. Joshua - March 6, 2020 @ 7:15 am

    Where is this guys blog, I need to see how he writes on it. This is awesome, I’ll definitely consider an apex after seeing this post, which was amazing

  18. KC - March 6, 2020 @ 11:07 am

    I’m surprised you didn’t cut him off before you did. It only shows how far your customer service will go to make every customer happy. That guy must live “Behind Enemy Lines”.

  19. Eric B - March 6, 2020 @ 9:21 pm

    I Don’t even own an Apex trigger although many of my buddies do. First let me commend Apex as I love companies whom do business the right way. This guy could not produce any information regarding the trigger because he likely bought a gun used or the trigger used and then thought to himself if I complain they will likely give me something. Kudo’s to you for showing what your company does and how you handle your business. If I need another trigger I will support your business! Best thing I read on the internet today! Thank you for doing business the right way!

  20. Patrick D. - March 7, 2020 @ 5:55 pm

    I experienced the EXACT SAME problem as the AHC (asshole customer) when I ran my stock G17 through an ultrasonic cleaner…it did the job and removed all lube from the trigger bar/connector interface, resulting in a creepy, long and heavy trigger pull. I learned from that experience to ALWAYS add some grease to the trigger bar / connector interface during cleaning, and have had no problems since then with either stock glock or my Apex triggers.

    I also had occasion to call CS with a question – I can’t remember her name, but the rep was the kind of person you WISH you’d get every time. Nothing but kudos to the staff at Apex!!

    Sometimes management just needs to call out AHCs and tell them to GTFO. Glad to see that’s what happened in this case!

  21. Justin A. - March 9, 2020 @ 10:24 am

    3000+ rounds through my M&P Pro 9L competition gun and ZERO issues. APEX is a brand I trust and recommend.

  22. Mike R - March 11, 2020 @ 3:51 pm

    I purchased a trigger kit for my fn509 trigger is great with no problems the pin on the fn509 isn’t designed to be removed and apex makes a jig for this. I bought the kit planning to buy the jig anyway I called apex and was informed they had loner kits only charge being shipping to and from me. All I can say is this company has world class customer service and makes quality parts. I wouldn’t hesitate to buy anything from them when needed in the future.
    Mike

  23. Indeed - March 16, 2020 @ 9:23 am

    Having worked for another arms/optics company in Pearland, Texas, the principals did not endorse this philosophy. Glad you do.

  24. Rick - March 18, 2020 @ 3:33 pm

    Crazy people like this act this way when they can afford things like this lol especially when the owners arw teying to make things right even when the products was destroyed lol i wished i could have one of these , heard good things. Im a first time gun owner and hope some day i have the privilege of using onr of your triggers on my new MP Shield 9mm. But hopes and dreams lol

  25. Matt - March 24, 2020 @ 12:51 pm

    I’ve “fired a customer” myself, on occasion. I’m in a different business arena, but have experienced similar silliness (abusive behavior). Frustration (& anger) are to be expected – and dealt with, professionally. Abuse: no. Even without the language, abusive behavior is a no-no.

    You guys did good!

    Apex Triggers (several) are on my “wish list” – just haven’t pulled the trigger yet (pun intended – D’oh…!).

    Keep up the great work!

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